he knows the defense budget inside and out. nobody is going to kind of outsmart paul ryan when it comes to the federal government. bill: all right, now on the moderator a lot of folks on the right are blaming martha raddatz for a biased performance last night. are you? >> no, listen i think, i was taught, bill when you're in the game you don't argue with the ref. bill: you think you won the game then? >> absolutely. absolutely. bill: the rnc is saying that joe biden interrupted 82 times last night. did you keep track of that? >> no. you know what i kept track of? how few number of times that joe biden mentioned barack obama last night. i was just surprised that this was all about joe biden, and it was very little about barack obama and the administration. what the administration was going to do in the next four years. what their plans were to get america out of recovery. what were their plans to prevent this unraveling of foreign policy that we've seen around the world. listen, the interruptions are one thing. i think when the